Photography in the Overgate

[tobyaw]

Off to Dundee for a shopping trip today. We parked in the Overgate Centre car park; while Andrew locked up the car I looked out the side of the multistory and took a couple of photos of the roofline of the building opposite. Nothing too thrilling, but when I have a camera in my pocket, I’ll point it at things and snap away.

 

Ten minutes later, as we came out of a shop, I was approached by a couple of red-shirted security staff, who asked me what I’d been photographing. Being somewhat bemused by their query, I asked what the problem was, and they told me that photography is banned in the Overgate Centre, that the carpark comes under that rule too, and that I’d been invading the privacy of the people who live in the flats opposite. I’d apparently been observed on CCTV using my iPhone as a camera. I asked how I should have known that photography was banned, and was told that there were signs at the entrances to the shopping centre.

I told the red-shirts that they were being rather silly, and wandered off to see if I could find an anti-photography sign by the doors. I couldn’t find any such sign, but while I was standing outside the Overgate, I took a photo of the sign on the doors showing what was banned. At which point a red-shirt approached me and told me that I wasn’t allowed to take a photo of the Overgate Centre doors.



I told the chappie not to be silly, as I was outside the Overgate so the (mythical) rule about photography didn’t apply. I asked if he had a copy of the rules, and he told me that no, they didn’t have the rules, but if I wrote to the shopping centre they could confirm that photography was banned. He got a bit stroppy with me, so I took a photo of him and called him an oik, which was rude of me, but factually true. He then called me an oik, which I found rather amusing.

I gave up and wandered up the High Street.

Comments

[kateaw]

He then called me an oik

Well, if they employ children then you can only expect childish behaviour.

[ggreig]

You're probably down on somebody's database now as a potential terrorist.

It might be worth raising with Dundee City Council. While it's reasonable that you might be challenged if they genuinely thought you could be invading the privacy of their neighbours (for which they might bear some indirect responsibility), the rest is barking.

The councillors for the Overgate appear to be Elizabeth Fordyce (SNP), Ken Lynn (SNP), and Craig Melville (SNP), while the MSP is Joe Fitzpatrick (SNP).

[silme.livejournal.com]

Agreed, particularly as there aren't any clear signs telling you that you can take photos.

[tobyaw]

Thanks for the info. I’ve written to the Overgate, asking for clarification of their position on photography in the shopping centre, and asking for a copy of the rules that the security guard referred to. I’ll take it further once I get a response.

[houstonjames.livejournal.com]

It certainly is absurd, but apparently not new: back around the time the Starbucks there first opened, the central Starbucks PR people came to take photographs of their newest outlet for obvious reasons. Their corporate photography team was accosted by red-clad oikdom, presumably concerned about poor little Starbucks having its corporate privacy violated by Starbucks.

I get the impression the redshirt gave up at "don't be silly" rather than proceeding to "which of us pays Overgate six figures in rent, and which would be easier to replace?", but either way the photographs were taken.

It all goes to confirm that good security staff are hard to find, which is presumably why the Overgate haven't managed it yet.

[tobyaw]

The real downside to the experience was Andrew feeling unhappy for the next few hours. He doesn’t react well to confrontation, and I think he was dreading returning to the Overgate to collect his car.

[ggreig]

:-(

[pogbody.livejournal.com]

What rubbish! the last time I had this was outside a Tunisian govt. building not in the UK!

your own safety

[(Anonymous)]

I was once a security guard (GSO) for the Overgate Shopping centre until recently joining the police, and the Overgate just like any other major shopping centre have very strict rules and guidelines in place and this applies to photography aswell. Its in place not to inconvenience you or to annoy you but its there for your own safety and the public safety and privacy. Unfortunately we live in a world where terrorism is a major threat and no matter how ridiculous or harmless it may seem you taking a picture, security staff are not allowed to be seen ignoring it. There were numerous times when suspicious packages and threats were made against the centre without the public knowing, the threat is real and could happen at any time. And please have some more respect for these officers working in the overgate, as there job is stressful enough without having members of the public giving stupid remarks to them. They are highly respected by Tayside Police, The Scottish Ambulance Service and by the local council as they are to date the best trained in the UK. Thanks.

Re: your own safety

[(Anonymous)]

Forgot to mention. The Overgate is a private building, although they let members of the public in, they have the right to refuse entry to anyone for no reason, this applies to the rule of photography, its their house and if they dont want you to take pictures then they are fully entitled to tell you not to. For the ridiculous comment about "If you employ children then expect them to be childish" and "The Overgate has not managed to find good security", do you know that the company who provide the Overgate security have been given numerous awards for recognition of their service, if you were allowed to go behind the scene and see what the public dont see then you would be amazed at how every detail is perfected, also in the past 3 years 2 lives have been saved by the Overgate Security staff, aswell as this they are responsible for the lives of any shopper that comes into the city centre and has a heart attack, if the ambulance cant reach you within that 3 minute grace period then they get called out.
Take Care.

Re: your own safety

[tobyaw]

Yes, I know that owners of buildings can ban photography. But if a building is designed for the public to pass through, surely it would make sense to actually make such a ban clear? Like, with a notice, or a list of rules? After all, other behaviours that are banned in the Overgate are listed on posters on the doors.

Perhaps the security guards should stop annoying shoppers and stick to saving peoples’ lives, if that is what they are good at.

Re: your own safety

[tobyaw]

There might be strict rules and guidelines. However, these rules and guidelines aren’t listed in the shopping centre, at the entrances, or on the website.

The security guards behaved in an officious manner, and lied repeatedly. I was told that there were signs banning photography at the entrances — there weren’t. I was told that I should write to the Overgate to get a copy of the rules — I got no reply. I was told that I couldn’t photograph the outside of the Overgate — that is just plain daft.

Photography, when with friends or out shopping, is part of the normal modern social experience. It doesn’t not impact on public safety or privacy — it is no different from street photography. A ban on photography (if it genuinely exists) is daft.