Independence

[tobyaw]

So… in 2014 we get to vote in a referendum on independence from the United Kingdom. In 2017 we get to vote in a referendum on independence from the European Union.

I assume that if we, as a country, vote yes for the first, then we won’t get the chance to vote for the second.

What do we do if we fancy both?

Comments

Re:

[andrewducker]

Aaah,but we'd have freedom of movement throughout Europe, including the rest of the UK, until they voted to leave it!

[houstonjames.livejournal.com]

One of the bizarre anomalies right now is that the government can discriminate *within* the UK, because the EU largely safeguards rights between countries rather than within them. Hence the Scottish government can charge English students more than Scottish ones for university tuition - but has to give French and Greek students the Scottish rate. As soon as Scotland leaves the UK, EU rules will require English students to get the benefits they are denied at present; an interesting little legal quirk.

Presumably, on the same basis the UK government could - theoretically, at least - restrict migration from Scotland to England/Wales, though it's hard to imagine that actually happening, particularly since people from the rest of the EU would be free from such restrictions.

One scenario could be Scotland voting for independence, effective 2018, so in 2017 we would still be a part of the UK. Excluding Scotland from that referendum would be reasonable and legal, I think, since the outcome won't apply to Scotland either way. (At least the outcome of the Scottish referendum should be known before the UK one is being legislated for, avoiding ambiguity there.)

I wonder to what extent the SNP really want EU membership, as opposed to being so adamant we'd remain EU members because they saw that question as a threat to their goal of independence from London? The notion of leaving the UK yet staying in the EU always seemed contradictory to me: surely any argument against continued UK membership is at least as valid against staying in the EU. The money they spent fighting against disclosing the legal advice suggests it's more a case of determination not to debate the question at all, rather than having a considered position of wanting EU membership in itself.

Personally, I would vote for independence from both, since I oppose the EU, and having a genuinely separate government seems preferable to the hybrid Edinburgh/London rule at present.

[andrewducker]

Yup, the whole "Free to Scots and other EU members, but not the English" seems odd to me - and I can't see it being sustainable if Scotland does get Independence.